Common+Objections+to+Democratic+Education

This is a personal documentation of a workshop at EUDEC 2013, it represents my view and only mentions what I find relevant. Thanks to all participants. Shortlink to this page: [] toc = About answering questions = In the workshop we came up with a lot of common criticisms of democratic education. One of them was "But aren't you afraid that ...?" //I found another way. I found people understand better if I treat them as I treat my students and colleagues: with respect, curiosity and with an interest in who they are and what they are struggling with. I do not have to provide any answers. I only have to accompany them for a little while on this path they are exploring. Discovering the world by finding words for the next question. Enjoying a road we haven't traveled yet.// //In this way people will get a better understanding of democratic education, because they can feel it in their bones: the excitement, the joy, the hunger, the companionship, the fun, the equality in relationship, the respect, the combination of lightness and depth.// //And we will both leave a richer (wo)man.//
 * Extended comment by Evelien of De Ruimte School in Soest, NL:** //Answering the questions people have about democratic education mostly lead to nothing. It is never enough. It leaves me empty and sad and I never have the feeling that they understand what I try to explain.//
 * Personal summary:** //Meet people that criticize democratic education at eye-level and set out on a journey to discover each other's ideas about society and education.//

=Kids not prepared for the real world= "Kids cannot survive in the real world! (because they learn nothing/the wrong things/because they can't deal with competition, obedience)" "Kids don't get the skills to succeed in university" "Kids learn democracy, but real democracy doesn't exist in the real world" "Kids aren't prepared for the real world"
 * Quote: >> School is not supposed to prepare you for real life, but to enable you to do it yourself!<< Michael Sappir (?)
 * In school, you learn how to sit in rows, ask if you can go to the toilet and move only when the bell rings. What kind of real world does this prepare you for? Prison?! (Derry Hannam)


 * So what is important in the real world?
 * What skills do you need in the real world?
 * What is success, how do you measure it in the real world?
 * What is happiness, how can you become happy in the real world?


 * Parents are afraid that their children will fail in the real world, be unhappy, stay dependent on their financial support
 * but parents don't take time to reflect what is really needed in the real world, they just reproduce their image of a traditional school


 * go and ask graduates of democratic schools!

=School as a dream world= "teachers in the school just couldn't get a real job" "teachers are hippies" "so do teachers in your school just watch the kids and drink coffee?"
 * come and watch!

=Children with special needs= "Democratic education is not suitable for children with problems/special educational or socio-developmental needs." "Educators in dem.schools will not __notice__ that children have learning problems & cannot provide support" "Dem. Ed. is not suitable for everybody"
 * what is perceived as a problem or disorder in other schools often is not a problem in democratic schools, because here they can choose for themselves and still ask for support if they need it
 * a dem. ed. school is probably even __the best choice__ for children with special needs because here they learn to be yourself and live with your problems instead of avoiding them
 * staff & educators have a very close relationship with students and __will__ find out about special needs
 * come for a try-out week and find out!

=Children will not learn the right VALUES= "Today's kids are spoiled already. In dem.ed. they will be spoiled even more!"
 * even the greeks complained about their "spoiled" youth, so maybe there is something wrong with our idea of youth?
 * what's your idea of childhood?

"Kids will not respect adults" -> "they will not respect their boss" -> "they will loose their job quickly" "Dem.schools raise rebels and anarchists!" "the children won't be able to respect authority/hierarchy in the workplace"
 * two levels of respect: formal respect and real respect.
 * formal respect (=not giving names to your teacher) is enforced by school rules like in regular schools
 * real respect (=looking up to somebody) can only be earned, not enforced by whatever law neither in regular schools nor in dem.ed. schools
 * dem.ed. kids will respect their boss on a formal level, but if the boss doesn't do a good job, he/she will not earn real respect
 * who deserves real respect?
 * what is hierarchy good for?
 * when should we question authority?

"Kids will not respect things/treat objects with care" "If students get control over the school this will lead to CHAOS"
 * look at Summerhill, they have a HUGE rulebook, and daily life is far from chaos.

= Children will not learn the right THINGS = "Kids won't learn anything!" "Kids won't learn what they need to know unless you make them learn it." (presumption: learning of important stuff is unpleasant) "If you can always choose what to do, kids won't learn that sometimes you have to do __tasks you don't like__ (e.g. filling in tax forms)"
 * You always learn. You cannot not learn. Already trying not to learn is absolutely boring, and kids hate boredom, they set challenges for themselves all the time.
 * What do you think is the right thing to learn?
 * Who are you to judge what is good/bad, important/obsolete, or what will be relevant for the students in 10 years from now?
 * We only know for sure that in the future, people need to be
 * flexible
 * socially networking
 * How would **you** like to be treated?
 * ---response> "ok but the real world is bad, children need to be prepared to deal with it"
 * The world doesn't have to be that way. Then maybe we should shape a better future!?
 * ---response> "you're a dreamer or a retard!"
 * Quote: //**New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!** - Arthur C. Clarke //
 * Quote: //**New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It can’t be done. 2) It probably can be done, but it’s not worth doing. 3) I knew it was a good idea all along!** - Arthur C. Clarke //

"What if a child doesn't want to learn reading or writing?"
 * Relax. Almost every student wants to participate in written communication at some point. And even if they don't, they acquired the skills to teach themselves how to read and write later on (example of that graduate that refused to read whole school life and later learned to read because he was traveling and needed to find his way around the world)

=Responsibility for learning process= "Kids are young and don't know nothing about the world -- they can't be responsible for their learning process. Adults have a lot of experience and should therefore guide the young to their own good." "There are critical learning periods that the kids know nothing about - so they can't manage their own learning process" "Children cannot discipline themselves -- so adults have to do it." "6-year-olds will just start setting things on fire" "What if they make dangerous/bad choices?" "Children cannot structure their own life"
 * A 5-year-old is an expert about being five years old. We think we know better but it's too long ago to have an idea.
 * Kids know best what they know already and where they want to go from there!
 * This is obsolete thinking. You can learn anything at any age (see Holt etc.)
 * If adults will always do this job for the children, they will never be able to become independent, they will never have the chance to become adults.

"Kids will not learn but play games all day long" "Kids will always take the easy way out. They have to be forced to face challenges." "Learning can only happen outside the comfort zone. Someone has to push you out of your comfort zone -- that's the job of the teacher." "How should a pupil find out that he/she likes a topic if it is never introduced to him/her? "If it's not tough, it's not education" "My education was tough. I had a very difficult time, but it made me what I am today, the hard time made me stronger." "Regular education didn't hurt me, so it won't hurt my children."

"If children just do what they want, there will be no continuity" "How will they learn to work trough complex/difficult tasks?" "If they don't have to do anything, will they have the stamina/character to follow through when having to do/learn difficult stuff?"
 * in a democratic school children don't have to learn or be interested in everything. When they discover what they are deeply interested in, they are motivated to understand difficult stuff and the school would help them to do so (if asked). -> Sudbury model